I am decreasing the flesh in my diet for the last year and resonate with this balanced contemplation of the subject.
In addition as I read this and recognize that I share your thoughts, I find it such a wonderful reminder of the unconscious connection we have. All the more substantiation for the realization that, indeed, we are all connected.
— basira on January 10, 2009
Dear Pir Zia,
I, too, am an ‘omnivore’, but try to balance intake of meat with (vegetable) recovery-days for my kidneys. Americans in particular typically intake more protein than the body can absorb in a given period - thus creating a kind of nutritional ‘waste’.
I once spoke with a Native American about their consumption of buffalo (somewhat like the Tibetan use of mutton). He said to me: “It’s not the type of food that is inherently good or bad, if it’s eaten with prayer of gratitude.” A tribal Medicine Man need not be considered unable to provide guidance or somehow profane simply because he ingests meat - if his practice is to consciously acknowledge the source of his sustenance. Among the Navajo, the thinking is that when they hunt, and an animal presents itself, it does so as an offering to its fellow being, the reciprocity of a co-dependence that is nearly too complex to fathom.
Additionally, the use of water in the production of plants/food and standard agricultural methods can be exploitative of animals even if they are not the direct food-product.
As always, things that might appear superficially simple are more-subtle the deeper one looks.
= Chechma =
— Lance Chechma Diskan on January 11, 2009
I heard the Dalai Lama guiltily confess once that for health reasons he ate meat every other day. Then he joyfully added that he was half a vegetarian. I’m hoping by decreasing my meat consumption, actually not as great as most, that I may joyfully become at least half a vegetarian in this lifetime. Thanks for the inspiration, Zia.
— Ali Jemal on January 11, 2009
Dear Murshid,
I have read that you are vegetarian and it makes sense to me because I’ve read from various Mystics that eating animals involves us in the karmas of the slaughterhouses. I’ve also read that meat makes the mind restless and dull, not good for meditation.
I thought that God wants us to realize that we don’t need to eat our fury friends to be healthy? I’ve read that in the beginning of this world, people were too pure to kill and eat animals. Now people do it, and they don’t even realize that their money is going towards killing more animals. I’m often saddened the way people treat animals because I wouldn’t want to be treated that way.
I myself used to eat all the different kinds of meat and even made fun of one of my sisters for being vegetarian. But then I read up on the path of Sant Mat, which is currently taght by Sant Gurinder Singh Ji Maharaj among others, and one of their rules for initiation is to be vegetarian and no eggs. It was a hard concept for me at first, but I eventually learned that it’s more healthy and it really causes less animals to die when we don’t pay the meat industry.
Of course, people love their meat. This I have experienced when I was partaking. But it just seems like there is so much food available in most places that being vegetarian is easy. I knew that I had to quit to become initiated so I was very determined.
I am currently on an Island in the Caribbean where barely any natives are vegetarian, but it’s still easy.
It also seems to discipline us. If we are eating so much tasty food, how will we meditate, LOL. Though vegetarian food tastes very good also as many people refuse to believe.
I’m often surprised that some Saints preach to not eat it and some don’t. It’s kind of confusing. It’s like one Saint saying you need to refrain from drinking and the other saying it’s ok to drink.
I really don’t understand, maybe you can explain it better? Thanks.
— Sid on January 18, 2009
Thank you for addressing this critical subject in such a personal yet balanced way. Many other factors in addition to the torment of animals in factory farms tilt the scales toward a plant-based diet: the massive allocation of land, water, energy, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides and antibiotics to produce animal foods; the devastation of rainforests and other precious lands to grow grains to feed the animal stock; the earth, air and water pollution produced by large-scale animal food production; the global inequity of the animal food system; the enormous costs of the human “diseases of affluence” caused by over-consumption of meat. May “digesting one’s food in the mind and heart” help us join the “global freemasonry of conscience,” and may I add, of sustainability, so sorely needed at this time.
— Shams on January 18, 2009
I can see that Pir Zia has a different style of teaching. It is true that other Masters have eaten meat, but were so absorbed in God that it did not matter.
I guess I’ve been so used to thinking that all Masters want us to be vegetarian that I’m confused when I get here.
But maybe those Masters of the past had less access to vegetarian food? That must be. I don’t see any current day Masters eating meat. Who knows what really went on back then, when everything we know is pretty much manipulated.
Maybe people don’t care about killing animals because they are a lower life form? “God put animals on this planet to eat.”
I don’t believe that one, I beleive the animals are struggling souls trying to get the human form back.
— Sid on January 18, 2009
Despite anything, I found this quote:
Although the majority of Muslims are meat eaters, there is also widespread remembrance of Muhammad’s warning, “Do not allow your stomachs to become graveyards!” For this reason, meat is used in moderation in many traditional recipes. Many Sufi tariqats prohibit meat-eating during retreats. The Qadiri shaikh Abdul Karim Jili, commenting on Ibn Arabi’s advice to avoid animal fat during retreats, stated that “animal fat strengthens animality, and its principles will dominate the spiritual principles.”
So Muhammad does warn us, and in this paragraph lies what is thought to be the result of eating animals: damaged spiritual principals.
On that same website is the teachings of the Great Kabir Sahib:
The 15th Century poet Kabir, whose Sufism represented a fusion of principles from both the Islamic and Hindu traditions, unequivocally condemned meat eating, characterizing it as the ultimate failure of compassion, deserving of eternal punishment; he stated that even the companionship of meat-eaters was harmful to the soul.
You see what I mean? This isn’t my fault, it’s really the influence of actual Saints that has seemed to be like this. Maybe some Saints were more sensitive to the subject?
Here’s something else:
n a gentler tone, the 20th century Sri Lankan Qadiri teacher Bawa Muhaiyaddeen also encouraged vegetarianism, stating that arrogance, haste and anger may decrease by elimination of meat from the diet. He taught that consumption of meat promotes the development of animalistic qualities, whereas consumption of plant and dairy products promotes peaceful qualities; and noted that Islamic rules pertaining to animal slaughter have the effect, if properly observed, of reducing the number of animals killed for food. Bawa put these principles into daily action, preparing many impromptu meals for his community and guests, typically in 15-gallon quantities.
It just seems right to me and others, that while on the spiritual path, we, like Pir Zia has said, be very conscious of what we are eating, by digesting food in the heart as well.
Here’s a very interesting paragraph, stating that eating meat can be medicinal for certain people in the material world!:
The Chishti Inayat Khan, who introduced Sufi principles to Europe and America in the early part of this century, expressed similar concerns. He observed that vegetarianism promotes compassion and harmlessness to living creatures, and that a vegetarian diet aids in the purification of the body, the opening of the channels of breath and refinement of spiritual faculties. He also taught that meat can be a medicine, and can help some people to withstand the struggle of life in the material world. Therefore, each spiritual seeker should be guided by a teacher in the choice of diet, a decision also inevitably influenced by the regional climate and food supply.
http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2006/12/vegetarianism-and-sufism-spiritual.html
— Sid on January 18, 2009
On that same site I found another paragraph, Murshid:
Moreover, if one carefully observes the eating habit of Prophet Muhammad and all other God sent and chosen personality, God’s peace be upon them all, none of them were fond of meat. Rather they all took minimal mean, mostly depended on non-meat food source. Jesus Christ ate mostly fish, not meat. Prophet Muhammad liked milk, honey, dates and some gentle natured vegetables; didn’t like to take even onions or garlic at all (which is a hindu vegetarian practice, interestingly). If one has to categorize, Prophet Muhamamd was a semi-vegetarian. Likewise, Buddha was a complete vegetarian.
So He, peace be upon him, was not harsh to meat eaters or vegetarians. Jesus Christ, peace be upon him, also did not go any further than fish. As far as I know, fish have two elements within them, which is just one more than plants. He possibly didn’t have access to other foods. But He (Prophet Muhammad) didn’t eat onions or garlic as much, and that shows that he was really trying to be smart about what state his mind was in accordance with his diet.
— Sid on January 18, 2009
Maybe people who reach higher degrees of meditation become vegetarian automatically? It seems that all Saints preach us to have a light diet. Many include the karma involved of eating meat. So maybe You, Murshid, understand that automatically people will make the right choices, by virtue of meditation?
— Sid on January 18, 2009
Dear Pir Zia,
Salaam.
As a small child, I can remember my father asking so many times, as he fired up the grill, how I would like my hamburger cooked. My reply never changed: “Burnt.” I did not wish to imbibe the blood or the feeling of raw flesh.
Decades later, I operated a certified organic farm with laying hens. Modern poultry methods dictated that hens be “culled” after two years because they would cease to lay as many eggs (tho’ truth be told the size of the eggs went from “large” to “ouch” as they diminished in frequency). I could not do that. When they passed naturally after about 8 years, I would take their little bodies to a place in the forest that felt as if it embodied a certain feeling of recycling in the Buddhist tradition, and so a balance was achieved. Overnight, the little bodies would disappear, probably to feed a lair of baby foxes or coyotes. Beautiful.
Peculiarly perhaps, I stopped eating eggs during this time but still enjoyed seeing the manifestation of community among these feathered beings. There were two who hung out together and went down to the pond every day to hunt for frogs. Others had their own agendas. It was wonderful to watch and learn about their society.
In contrast, when I was in India three years ago, a dear friend, a sheikh in the Gudri Shahi lineage, made lunch for me. It was a simple meal of of lamb and rice boiled together. While I had not eaten the meat of a mammal for many years, I could no more refuse this offering from his hand than I could cut off my own hand.
These feelings are so fine. I would not trade them for anything. Thank you for helping them to be more extant through the vibration of your words.
With warm regards and respect,
Farishtah
(scribe for Tasnim)
— Farishtah Saaqib on March 13, 2009
I became a vegetarian at the age of 17 at Woodstock Festival, 1969. There was a beautiful man dressed in only a brown cloth tunic walking with a lamb by his side and holding a large sign which read “The killing of animals leads to the killing of people.” I didn’t touch another meal with meat or fish for over 13 years. I became a gourmet cook with many fine recipe books to guide me. When I became pregnant I added meat to my diet and did so for years afterwards. For the past year I have again eliminated meat, one after the other, until I no longer eat any. I feel more in tune with my ethical leanings: I am trying to incorporate more kindness into my actions and interactions. Once I learned of the actual suffering of each type of animal I was eating, I could not contribute to that animal’s trauma. I also agree with Shams, that factory farms are not only cruel, but contribute to a host of environmental problems that we now need to reverse. But the fact is, I don’t want to support any kind of slaughter, factory or not. My heart and my mind are at peace with this diet.
— Sami on June 8, 2009
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I accept killing and eating as normal in this Manifestation, whether animal or vegetable. Azizananda
— Azizananda on June 11, 2009
I have adopted a vegetarian though I occasionally eat meat now. I find that meat is simply not needed to be the principal part of the diet so when it is no longer center stage meat becomes far less important to me.
— Jay on November 17, 2009
